Clemens Behrend on the problems with customer experience in Web3 (and how to solve them)

pete_boyle:
so were here we're chatting to clement brand and we i've probably butchered that already but we're going to be talking about c x in web three because it is actually a major you so you could just give us a quick introduction of yourself and how you help people and then we'll jump straight into the problems and how people can hopefully solve them with their three projects

clemens:
yes so i i'm claimants parent and i bought in the crypto industry for the last five year mainly in customer support so i worked for a tres first unicorn called pit pander and they had like

pete_boyle:
yah

clemens:
over formulating customers like

pete_boyle:
h

clemens:
ll

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
so all sorts of assets but you can

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
imagine so like from stocks

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
vsmadles and all so crypto currencies and there i took care of like the customers report the customer success and the community team also by myself i'm like a pig fair and you saw of crypto currency so almost in the space since ten years lately i'm doing quite a lot like in webtwee using different protocols and what i know is that like

pete_boyle:
m

clemens:
a lot of like customer experience is not like really on point like a lot of things are getting like outsorts to the community and there's not really a connection between their prend and their founders and like the actual people so what's like quite easy that you can chat like with other users but you cannot really gain like a connection with the founders and like really build trust and that's like what is like customer experience

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
all about so we have like a difference between like user experience and like customer experience in customer experience focused a little bit more on the big picture and also on the connection between team and also like the community so this is what customer experience is all about

pete_boyle:
so with the customer experiencing because you mentioned then tis like you know the customers and their connection to the founder is it just kind of is that where you see the biggest problem like customers to the founder or is it

clemens:
yes definitely so for instance we always talk about mess adoption but what we then do is

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
like we say like okay

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
our customers need to be textsavy they need to know like how web tree works that need to like homatamaskan everything works yes you can have like this attitude and i think it's fine if you're like a technical founder but just be aware of like if you really want to aim for like a huge customer or community based you include some type of people so for instance there are people who would like to even see like a clear email or phone number on the profile and i mean of course most people say like i never had

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
like this amount of conversations on people are writing to me and therefore

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
outset like to some sort of community but the sing is like what we notice is like the best

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
reputation of the prints which are like easy to reach and also the response terms are not that important if you

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
have like a huge backlog of conversations

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
and feedback that's fine just collect it look at it you don't even have to respond

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
to all messages that's not the expectation but for instance if somebody doesn't know how use this cord has an issue they just go silently away and then you lose feedback you don't know what you can improve and you maybe lose a customer in the end you also lose revenue

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
just need to be aware of it i'm not saying that like every protocol should have like a phone number or whatever but just be aware that are really people from the old economy who also have like the de pockets which you want to address that you might not address them for this culture

pete_boyle:
it's funny you mentioned because like the customer reviews that we get on decent is one of the most common things that i see people complain about as customer service and like there's a

clemens:
yeah

pete_boyle:
projects from different like different sort of verticals within we three and like so many people are just like one star review because something happened i reached out to customers er there's no risk it um m it seems to be like one of the biggest drivers of negative sentiment

clemens:
because like people also very often don't know how to deal with things so for instance we have a customer who got scared of course the writer wants to review about your service even if it's not related but like sometimes customers sweet out to you and they don't expect like to an issue that you fix it they just won't have somebody to listen to say like i understand and like really show that you like care about people and also like where i see like huge paying point like in customer support in crypto i also saw that like how we handle things at bit panda is that like the services hiding a lot from their customers just to be able to hand the traffic but as i already explained it's not the right way and also what changed a lot in the industry that like all the big players are currently going for outsaucing they're trying to find cost efficient structures and like a few years ago they all all said like okay we cannot do that for security reasons or whatever

pete_boyle:
ah

clemens:
but this parting is covered currently like shifting

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
and i think like of course ausourcing it's not always the best quality but at least you can make sure that you are like easy to reach that you get like at least some sort of response

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
so that's like the first step that we need to achieve because currently it's not even the issue that they reach out to customer support and get like a bared reply most of the time they don't get a reply at all when there s like an urgent issue

pete_boyle:
i think the problem as well as i mean i don't even know how many discord communities and channels i'm in for different projects you know just going through and some not all have you know contact us for support but discord i find is like a terrible challenge a terrible tool for good communication beaus it's very difficult to find things once you know people are sharing things but i think the bigger issue that you see in there is so many people try and impersonate the brand i get d ms from people that i'm saying like you know

clemens:
yeah

pete_boyle:
i'm from you

clemens:
yeah

pete_boyle:
know it an to support and notice there's a problem we just need to go here and sink like that sort of social engineering for scamsis huge

clemens:
i can tell you a story about that so i seem like three or four years ago i was at them so then i was like

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
doing my work out and of course i looked at my phone i know i shouldn't look at my phone i stood focus on it but

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
i looked at my pale and then like my boss wrote me and like when your boss writes you you always look at it then i looked at it and then he wrote me something like hey are you asking people on tall for money or are you scaring people and like

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
my heart weight was really going up like

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
and i was like holy ship like i mean like i didn't hear like much for my supervisor spect them because things were runnin smoothly but like when when your supervisor is questioning if you are scanning people then you are getting nervous

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
so what did i do then i just dropped like the exercise like all my stuff and went back home to my computer with the panic i got the mytelicrom got contact i locked in changed all the stuff and i was like really like like stressed out and then like in the end what was it somebody in telegram used my name like claimants

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
and instead of the l second letter

pete_boyle:
one

clemens:
we used a big you cannot call it

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
no way you cannot

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
spot it so like for everyone who's listening if you are within telegram don't use any thing or any prntnamfrom l because people can just use like a big big

pete_boyle:
ah

clemens:
eye and of course like they just look in a channel look at it they're not they don't even need to be part of this telerumption look at it and then they can just white to

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
people so like one way how you can solve it is like that you make like a channel that you don't allow messages into it and that you then link like two or three private accounts which people can

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
d m these

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
three accounts which you then link these you then forward to your internal ticketing

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
system or whatever it's still

pete_boyle:
ah

clemens:
not the perfect solution you need to check it but it's like some house citizen but we also tried like some invoke port which educates people but you will always have people who don't um don't spot it and that's

pete_boyle:
i think

clemens:
norma

pete_boyle:
that's that's why it's only like discordant things there's so many channels within each sort of projects discord soever that to go through everything step by step and say like right this is where you go for this if these people do this don't listen you don't listen there's so much information there do you think that like one of the problems with all of this c x and not being able to sort of get feedback is because discord is too confusing and is not well organized enough for people or do you think it's just a case of having

clemens:
m

pete_boyle:
those closed channels where you link like only each out to person a b c if there's a problem like how should brands better solve that because it is a real issue

clemens:
so i know like one company which provides a very good solution for this cording customers support they are called mother dot like m a fowl a so they offer like customer support solutions for like discord twitter and like some other tools and just looks quite secure so they also think like a lot of came and i think this might be also like a good page o a tree service that you can review so i can also give a like the contact data of them and i think they work on some solution so like for every tree service who want to provide like customers report within the this

pete_boyle:
m

clemens:
court or like

pete_boyle:
hm

clemens:
any other social media chals that might be something which is like out of the box solution but on the other side i think what we should not smaller is like there opportunity to offer this cord as all because there is and for certain clients it's good but what you should not do that you like move unexperienced users towards this came

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
so like the people

pete_boyle:
okay

clemens:
who already used

pete_boyle:
ah

clemens:
this code maybe they can find it directing this cold but if you put it like in super bold directly on your website and say this is like the only support channel then you make it super easy for scans

pete_boyle:
yeah yeah and so is that is that kind of the biggest error that you see then is just not having a sort of scum resistant discord approach

clemens:
i think the biggest error is like taking responsibility for instance when you work at a centralized exchange but a customer gets scaped they buy bit coin through our service then they cannot reverse the bit corn transaction but what they can reverse is like for instance like davit car transaction which they use to buy the bit coin

pete_boyle:
yes

clemens:
so if you don't take care of schemes in the end you have customers who will raise the transactions and leave you with the loss there is a huge incentive to work on a safe environment because you as like and service can of can lose money i don't know like how it is like for other protocols or like like tafthings three things but for centralized exchange they have like a huge incentive so they're like the minimum that you should offer is like an ascending flow that you show

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
some sort of slider like s confirm that you understand don't send to these services or down to dat so they are also

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
like what's quite important they are like warnings from authorities that you cannot send the funds to certain services and sometimes the issue is people sent to these services saying their elect they are not even aware that they are like a warning from the authority and then the exchanges lock their account and they are getting upset and it's like for their own protection because it's like some scamp project which the authority canceled and people are still upset and they don't have a clue why they accounted a simpilized exchange is an out

pete_boyle:
m

clemens:
and so yeah i think like every exchange should have like minimum like a few people working i m only on this topic

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
because like it definitely pays off if you invest in

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
that

pete_boyle:
and i guess the well then to me like from what you said that it sounds like communication is one of the bigger issues because if somebody has is flagged as a potential you know sam it's happening throg their account and then they get their account blocked but they're not told about it the first thing that they're going to do is go to public channels like twitter and tweet the centralized exchange which is going o be putting other people off it's going to be sort of bad negative reputation for them but

clemens:
i mean it is okay you can hire

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
stuff and i think not the lead

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
and so on but like what's repaired is like these revue platforms and like some revue platforms are also when they don't understand you're in those three then it can really damage your brand

pete_boyle:
yeah which is why you should use web three specific review platform

clemens:
yes

pete_boyle:
but i'm just wondering how you could like you know potentially stop people from using that leaving those negative reviews in the first place because it often seems like if it's been if there's been a stop put on your account for your protection but you've not been told you feel like your you're being victimized by the exchange what could what could a brand do better to sort of just help educate somebody that this is what's happening

clemens:
first thing we don't want to avoid negative reviews we can have value negative

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
reviews first when we respond to them and show the people that we care and that we want to improve if we disagree in something we can say in the in the review he wedisacur on point the other point we find valuable

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
the also like a huge question in customers support or like also marketing is like what's the best vebearanged eople always want to have like a five point zero revue

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
but that's like to go people will ask what's the catch so like a range from four point two to four point five is like the most trustworthy and you should also make a decision like do you reply to all bevis only to the negative

pete_boyle:
m

clemens:
one in my view you should reply to all reviews

pete_boyle:
great

clemens:
because like if a customer seas like they have a certain score they reply to all the like there is like a customer support

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
team working and then like the score

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
is not the issue

pete_boyle:
yeah it's what you says trust signals i think because again if it's

clemens:
oh

pete_boyle:
wholly only positive reviews if i see that from a brand i'm like they've paid people they've paid people to leave positive reviews i don't trust it and then any trust i have in the brand is just created if they don't respond to two reviews i don't want to and i don't want to interact with that brand because i don't think that they are taking their customers seriously um ye interaction through them is great the four point two to four point five rating that's that's interesting i think it is probably about there because i think most people try and look at like a three star review to get a good idea of who is in the middle because you know most ople

clemens:
yeah

pete_boyle:
who leave reviews either had the best experience or the worst it's really interesting to go and see people who have a more measured opinion of a brand and also those negative reviews are so important for a brand to understand how they can improve whether it's the actual offer whether it's the way that they sort of communicate whatever it might be it is the perfect opportunity to understand what it is they need to improve so

clemens:
that's true

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
also like we carding the face reveals

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
like what kind o let let form actually do to avoid it

pete_boyle:
so

clemens:
how can the very fit line

pete_boyle:
yeah it's interesting because the way things work at the minute with a lot of the existing review platforms and you know went through out names there's a couple of huge issues there with the reviews one is that the review platform only cares about the number of reviews that they eat and so brand

clemens:
mhm

pete_boyle:
a who is you say a centralized exchange what they'll do is they'll incentivize

clemens:
yes

pete_boyle:
their best users to leave reviews so one they've segmented their audience and on these are our power users they use it every day they ask those people and only those people to leave a review and give them some form of financial incentive to leave a review so they're going to guarantee they get good reviews one because it's their best users too because they're paying for it so there's a sense of reciprocity so you know excuse the results it doesn't give a good over view two i see the there's one or two specific web three review platforms and i see moderation really isn't a thing on some of them they let reviews go through which are very low value and to me appear to have been paid for or just sort of span box because it's like a thumbs up this is good which isn't a review it doesn't help anybody five star review short text you know when we're moderating our reviews we have a couple of differet ways to generate the reviews we look for length we look for people language that is used that is more natural and it's not just wholly positive when somebody comes in and they just

clemens:
just

pete_boyle:
say oh this is great amazing everything is perfect i've managed to become a billionaire off using the service your thinking hold on it's a little suspect so you know more measured language is a good way one thing that i think block change should enable in the not too distant future and something we're looking at is bring in a wallet and and then checking somebody is on chain interactions to see if they're actually a verified user of certain projects that way you can verify somebody has actually used project rather than they've just been told to come over and give it a quick five star but it is i think that's the big big issue with a lot of review sits you can't tell who's real who's fake who's been paid who hasn't um we've got some plans in the works hopefully this year if everything goes to plan that should remove some of the control from the brands that are being reviewed and put it back to the users and also to better identify reviews that are just basically span people have paid for to go and get like a bell ranking i mean we had we had we had a brand that was uploaded the other day and within twenty minutes of them being live they got eight reviews and i thought this is unusual like they've literally just gone live on the sites probably not even indexed by google yet i didn't think don't think our social share had gone out and i looked at one of them reviews use the brands email address it was like john brand and i thought

clemens:
fantastic

pete_boyle:
it so all of those reviews just got immediately removed i was like they've just gone round the office and said hey everyone should review this now yeah

clemens:
literally like i had like like a previous job i had to go around

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
and had to tell people please as a customs employee don't write reviews because like one person sees this like the whole reputation is like

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
like

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
go on yeah i like really i was saying like i mean people just mean it like a good way and say like i'm also a customer

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
but no you are not

pete_boyle:
and even if they are a user of the company that they work for their experience of that company is not going to be the same as the average customer they've got more in depth knowledge of the product

clemens:
yep

pete_boyle:
they've got connections that will speed things through if they've got issues or whatever it's not typical it's not a good

clemens:
yep

pete_boyle:
representation of what the average experience with them is like it is it is difficult knowing which reviews a real witch a fake we actually built a discord by which can help brands collect reviews directly from their discord communities and we ask very pointed questions we ask for good and bad in all of the reviews because holy positive reviews are just useless holy negative ones you know i see what you know both sides of that

clemens:
oh

pete_boyle:
so hopefully that could could help out but let's say like a brand goes to all of these steps that you've been talking about to improve particularly that customer support element of customer experience what would be the reason why would they want to go through it all because it a lot of work and what would be the benefit for them

clemens:
the benefit like to quantify and to measure it is quite easy so usually prevents know like the customer lifetomerue of one client like just like oh like they can estimate it somehow like how much feed they earn like with one client they also know like how many people may be quit their service especially when you have like some sort of subscription model then it's like easy to clantify so like customer life timber you insernwiters like some on what iry project usually focused so like how can we improve this number so the use of term like as i already said we need to make it as easy as possible to complain because like the biggest issue what can happen to a service is like the silent leaders

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
so when people have an issue they don't tell you why they leave and they trust quit you never have a been like to at least stop them once and say like okay we see you are on the run like can we do something for you and not not even in every case you will be able to solve the problem and sometimes it it's not worth it so that's done like totally fine but sometimes you will be able to solve the issue so the biggest level of which what you have is try to reduce like the silent complainers to the smallest number what you can from the people you then complain and want to leave look that you can solve the as much issues as possible and like if you improve that already then like you see we of course should get up and like also you use pay should be like it least be stable and like in the current bear market

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
i mean like in the last few days it already turned

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
a little bit but what we note is currently everybody sees no new users ming in and everything is about the use of attention to this topic that really important and also like the feet pick that we got from our clients so far it's like super positive and of course in the beginning

pete_boyle:
ah

clemens:
we had some doubts that we said like okay all the big exchanges everyone is like making the customer support teams smaller but not we focus is like especially like the infers work not like actually the man power because like people also want to produce the main power and it's like really can also it's not like two goals that are going in separate ways because you can make it easy to complain to complain and you can get like more efficient and you can do that like with a smaller team like we are a more cost efficient in fraswucture so we also helped like lines to identify are they over paying for licenses may

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
be also like are they like coming costs for the age is this also also to hire is also something that we can help so also on the people part and not only on the technical part

pete_boyle:
cool and i guess the good segu here in like if people need help with the sort of customer experience and have to optimize it where's the best place to sort contact you on see if they can't you know maybe get your help in improving it

clemens:
so currently it's on linked in a trust on my linked in profile so search

pete_boyle:
m

clemens:
for my name like first name claimant pagan i think you will have it

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
like attached

pete_boyle:
love

clemens:
to

pete_boyle:
links

clemens:
the post or some in for text such just on our legal profile website linked in company page will come life later at later point but currently we work a lot up on like recommendation to like of course like some people aiding to us like on linked in so they are like a d m s are always open response times are also like super fast so this outrage outrage is quite easy so then the first question what we always ask our clients is like what can we do for you

pete_boyle:
m

clemens:
it's not that they buy like a certain tata product out of the box same thing for everyone and then just have to deal with it of course we have like some clients which are very similar for instance for what or some reason we have a lot of like crypto text tools

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
which we worked together i don't know why

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
but like people need to do texas so and like even for them like they don't always have the same needs

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
so for instance one of them want to do like an embestender program so they want like empower the community and also like some sort sorts a little bit of the customers report operation to some clients and also just don't have their like an engaged fan base and like for another text to it just helped them like with setting up the help desk so that's like one of the most common request so like how we can we make like our few articles easy to read how can we imbed there like some serves how can we get the right data out of it and like such things but it always depends on the needs goal of the clients because everybody is like in a different situation so some bare situation they said like okay we want to improve like customer experience and as i said somewhere in a situation where i said like okay we just want to and we duce costs but don't want to have like a support levels become too bad so as i said the first question will always be like okay what can we do for you then they explain us like their need it's also the pain points also their expectations and then we ever ate together like what would be like a citizen solution most likely what comes in a step between that design some sort of a of course like all the companies can trust us i think we can also show them that we have the credibility that we also have takes perience experience and also there integrity that they can

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
like

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
rely on us and then like once we found like this common sense on what we want to work in like in what direction we want to go then we just have like together like regular check in like some clients it's different some like even on a daily basis with some is on weekly basis some people say like it's like on a monthly basis so we really also take care that like we do it in the speed like of how everyone

pete_boyle:
m

clemens:
can do it because we also work with like some bigger like corporate and also like some super

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
small new startups with the new star after it's more like okay they are flexible they maybe want to have it like on a daily basis because they really want to bring things

pete_boyle:
yes

clemens:
forwards and don't care too much about like i don't know like processes for now because this comes later but like we've picked per rites we know like decision making process is long they need to sing with stay colors and so on until a decision is to make so of course they all we can also adapt and find a right to the chief of them

pete_boyle:
perfect cool so

clemens:
and then of course like once we once we finish this is usually so what we do is like we start like with a small project then we see like if it's a fit that we see like also like the expectations what they have and like also what we deliver is like match then we usually book like follow follow our projects with them because if we like agree on like something super huge moto your

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
partnership in the beginning and

pete_boyle:
ye

clemens:
then we see like after the first few weeks of work together that is not really like what they are expecting a like what we are delivering or that like it's not fitting our expectation that it's also like fine like after a small approaject to say like okay let's whilst patio

pete_boyle:
got it perfect we'll add links to basically your linked in accounts and then when you've got like you know the business count sell will add links to those and everything in here i guess

clemens:
es

pete_boyle:
just to finish off

clemens:
yeah

pete_boyle:
then if you had like just one sentence to give to people like to improve their c x what would you kind of explain if you had like just one very short piece of advice to give web three people how to improve this what would you say

clemens:
so the advice but i always told my team and they maybe so it's like a show like don't forget to smile when serving the customer even if you sit behind like a computer but like having like a positive and good attitude in customer support is key so like if people if you are also getting

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
frustrated because pit coin is going

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
down like eighty per cent

pete_boyle:
yeah

clemens:
the customers also frustrated because like put for you gets racked

pete_boyle:
oh

clemens:
yeah

pete_boyle:
yes

clemens:
then you don't have a good

pete_boyle:
just

clemens:
time

pete_boyle:
spirals down

clemens:
so

pete_boyle:
from there

clemens:
always so turn off your folio and always

pete_boyle:
ye

clemens:
smile smile smile

pete_boyle:
got it perfect all right well thank you again for your time it's been really good and yeah i'll pop all the links in and ah thank you

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